Comments on: Thoughts on large scale Java apps

By: Shared Hosting Resources

Shared Hosting Resources — Wed, 31 Oct 2007 13:10:14 +0000

Shared Hosting Resources…

I couldn’t understand some parts of this article, but it sounds interesting…

By: Software Development Guide

Software Development Guide — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 06:18:45 +0000

Software Development Guide…

I couldn’t understand some parts of this article, but it sounds interesting…

By: Web Hosting Reviews, Web Site Hosting

Web Hosting Reviews, Web Site Hosting — Sun, 14 Oct 2007 06:28:54 +0000

Web Hosting Reviews, Web Site Hosting…

I couldn’t understand some parts of this article, but it sounds interesting…

By: Classiest Posts about Java (10-12-2007) | spokedweb.com

Classiest Posts about Java (10-12-2007) | spokedweb.com — Fri, 12 Oct 2007 14:49:12 +0000

[...] up we have Thoughts on Large Scale Java Apps. This post discusses various aspects of large-scale Java based web applications. Three areas [...]

By: Web Hosting Providers Directory

Web Hosting Providers Directory — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 17:42:51 +0000

Web Hosting Providers Directory…

Sorry, it just sounds like a crazy idea for me :)…

By: The Bull

The Bull — Sun, 07 Oct 2007 05:19:20 +0000

@Michael: Having to buy a dedicated box for java apps is not a necessity, just that Java hosting itself _can_ be more expensive, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that Java itself is expensive. If you look at a corporate environment they are buying boxes anyway regardless of what they are going to run. The bigger the site becomes, and hence the more they have to scale, the fewer boxes in general it seems it takes to run the same performance.

I think comparing Java memory consumption can be a bit misleading as the JVM is going to grab its heap and run inside that, under one process. I may be wrong, but from what I recall PHP isn’t a single process execution model, and unless optimized is interpreted every execution. Can someone confirm that?

The one beauty of Grails is that you can get the speed of development that Rails provides while having the full power of Java at your disposal should you need it.

By: Java Hosting In People’s View: Java Jams - Gregory Page on County.. » Host News . biz

Sun, 07 Oct 2007 05:16:01 +0000

[...] Thoughts on large scale Java apps Several years (when most of these sites got started), Java hosting was hard and not cheap. To some extent this issue still exists today. A decent Java hosting company is going to charge a minimum of around $25 a month to get started. … [...]

By: Michael Kimsal

Michael Kimsal — Sat, 06 Oct 2007 14:09:38 +0000

Interesting that you talk about how “Java is expensive” makes you want to puke. Then a few paragraphs later you state “If I had the money for a dedicated box I might build more Java apps”. Perhaps I’m not reading deep enough, but you seem to confirm the ‘expensive’ argument.

You hit the nail on the head with one - most apps didn’t start out to be ‘large scale’. Someone had an idea, then got started with a prototype/softlaunch/whatever, then the project got larger than imagined. Often it’s easier to refactor what you started with bit by bit rather than rebuild from scratch, especially if the system is gaining popularity. And if the bottleneck is often a db layer, optimizing your db access and schema will often yield much more tangible short term results than changing languages.

A LAMP system is shared-nothing by default. Not saying Java apps can’t be that way by default, by the more I work in the Java world, the more I’m learning that that’s not the default approach. To some extent you’re swimming against the tide if you wanted to build a ’shared-nothing’ Java web app.

I’m working on some basic Grails stuff right now, and find that it’s rather a memory hog (relative to a PHP app) just to get started. Yes, perhaps it might ’scale’ a bit better than a PHP app (though probably not now since it’s so early in its life), but for most people wanting to start off (remember, most large scale apps started off small) in dev mode, the requirements are moderately high (gets in to cost again!)

While a couple years old, I suspect the concept hasn’t changed much in that time frame: http://www.killersites.com/blog/2005/java-hosting-is-kicking-my-ass/

By: Dennis

Dennis — Sat, 06 Oct 2007 13:53:22 +0000

Well,
As for the Java - it’s just one of the languages and we have a lot of applications and frameworks built around.

To my understanding there are 2 different things on market. They are visualization and grid computing. Both allows you to obtain max throughput. But of course database usually is a bottleneck.

Yes Hadoop is pretty good, but we are at GridGain also provide Grid computing based on Map/Reduce.

By: The Bull

The Bull — Sat, 06 Oct 2007 05:35:36 +0000

Nati: “Would it be fair to say that sites that are *content driven* would most likely choose LAMP stack and *business logic* driven sites would tend to choose Java?” I would say that at this time that is a pretty fair assessment. As for Map/Reduce, as far as I know, the only Java implementation is Hadoop which is fairly new, but I could be wrong.

Guy: I’m away of GigaSpaces and what they produce. I would venture to say that for most public sites it isn’t a requirement for scaling Java. An option yes, and I’m sure they will find their niche. However Java will scale pretty well on a decent app server.